[HIGHLIGHTS]
Richard Smith
[00:00] They don't have the right number of people for a lot of these actual doing jobs in the factories.
Mikkel Svold
[00:05] What about if there are no people to teach?
Richard Smith
[00:08] As you automate more and take out more people, then you've got to be able to compensate.
Mikkel Svold
[00:13] If you imagine a food plant, the year is 2030. What does it look like?
Carl Thorson
[00:19] Right, I think that you're going to see a lot more technology in what was traditionally not a high technology space. If you were to name one disruptor or one differentiator you're watching
Jennifer Crandall
[00:30] in 2026 what will that be? AI is hard to ignore right now.
[/HIGHLIGHTS]
Mikkel Svold
[00:36] 00:35–00:37] Regulation, consumer behavior, automation, those are just some of the things that's going on in the food industry and it seems
[00:49] to be really racing by these years at a very very high speed. In today's episode we'll try and break down some of these trends that we see going forward into 2026.
[01:01] 2026. And of course, beyond that, because things happens fast, but not that fast. So we'll try and look look forward. Welcome to behind clean lines. I'm Mikkel Svold. And with me, I
[01:13] have a lot of guests. So I've actually been looking quite forward to this episode. Because this time for this specific episode, we'll want to try something new. We've tried to invite three experts from each segment of the food industry to kind of chip in on what they think is going to be relevant, what trends they're seeing
[01:32] coming up in 2026. So with me today, I have Richard Smith, who is the Managing Director at NewTech Intelligent Automation in the UK. Richard, welcome to you.
Richard Smith
[01:43] Thank you very much. Thanks for having us.
Mikkel Svold
[01:45] And I also have Jennifer Crandall, who's visiting the show for the second time. And you are still the founder and CEO of Safe Food En Route, which is a food safety consultancy. Welcome to you, Jennifer.
Jennifer Crandall
[01:56] Thank you so much. Glad to be here.
Mikkel Svold
[01:59] And last one, I have Carl Thorson, who is the food safety and sanitation manager at General Mills in the US. Welcome to you as well.
Carl Thorson
[02:07] Thank you for having me.
Mikkel Svold
[02:09] So I'm pretty excited. And as some of the listeners, they may have noticed, each of you represent basically each segment of the industry. So we have Richard Smith representing the machine builders in the food sector,
[02:23] and we have Carl representing the other side of the table, so the food producers, and then we have Jennifer with an overall knowledge from tying the two together, so to say. So I'm really excited to hear what you guys have to say. And I think just for us to have somewhere to begin, Richard, maybe you can tell us what do you think will define the winners of food manufacturing in 26?
Richard Smith
[02:49] I think for me and for the sector of the food industry we work in which predominantly the fresh side of it, there is a lot of challenges for producers at the moment.
[03:06] And probably the biggest of those is around the labor availability and the whole challenge with that. Now, that's not a new challenge. It's been coming at people for a little while.
Mikkel Svold
[03:20] But I think the winners will be the companies who best navigate that side of things. And Carl, do you see the same thing from the food producer side?
Carl Thorson
[03:34] Absolutely. A common challenge, right? And trying to get the labor and then at the right skill set, right? Having the foundational organization set up and then having the people available for that,
[03:49] and then the right skill sets or training and educating them to meet those skill sets is ongoing challenge.
Mikkel Svold
[03:59] Jennifer, I want your take on this. Are there any blind spots that companies are still ignoring that you think they should be not ignoring in 2026?
Jennifer Crandall
[04:11] Many, but no. I think the biggest thing that I'm seeing, like paying attention to the trends that are going on, food as medicine is a big trend that's popping up. So
[04:24] staying relevant in that space, definitely maximizing AI and what it has to offer. A lot of larger companies probably are trying to embrace it, but they can't embrace it as quickly.
[04:37] Small and mid-sized companies, I think, just a lot of political things that are still going on
[04:49] that are carryover from last year, that are also, you know, impacting costs. So trying to minimize increased costs, you know, minimize your margins. So some of that plays into what Carl and Richard just said
[05:04] But also, you know, like how to get to shelf at a cost that the consumer is willing to spend because you're not going to get anywhere if you don't if you don't have a price point that they're willing to to pay for
Mikkel Svold
[05:16] yeah yeah of course do you see from your chair do you see mostly internal drivers internal to the companies or do you see external drivers like regulation politics those kind of things?
Jennifer Crandall
[05:30] yeah most of what i'm seeing uh politics and regulation have driven a lot of our clients in their maneuvering. So with the tariffs in the United States, some of that, even though it didn't necessarily,
[05:43] not all of it has come to fruition. And it's not, you know, even as it gets closer to being in fruition, it's backed off. So there's just a lot of uncertainty there with the tariffs. And then regulation in general is shifting.
[05:58] So we just had a new dietary guidelines drop that was kind of out of nowhere. A lot of us weren't expecting that. So those will be driving a lot of people's changes as well,
[06:10] because that could impact that has a ripple effect of impacting labels and impacting what companies are doing for the quote unquote trends of like food is medicine. Yeah, external for sure.
Mikkel Svold
[06:15] That makes a lot of sense i think let's jump right into some of the some of the different trends that we've spotted we've had a little chat beforehand before starting the
[06:31] recording and uh one of the things that you all seem to agree about agree about and Richard and Carl you mentioned as well is the the labor challenge so carl can you maybe tell me what are
[06:45] the specific impacts of the shortage in when you said the food producing side?
Carl Thorson
[06:53] Right. Absolutely. I think it's a huge opportunity. Right. We obviously, as Jennifer mentioned, cost is a big component here. So how do we take advantage of, you know, making sure that we're onboarding, orientating new people as quickly as possible and giving them the tools and the skills that need to be successful?
[07:13] Right. And that can be, you know, I think focused on, you know, simple adult learning principles and tools like, you know, I think about how I do things at home, how I learn with YouTube, TikTok type short, small learning events, and how do we give them
[07:31] those tools that, you know, address things like language challenges, literacy, the lack of skill sets that we're looking for. So how do I put those skills and
[07:45] tools out there for them to easily absorb and take in, right? So, you know, if I've got to fix something or do a new task to me at home, I pull up a YouTube video, right? So how do we get that
[07:59] information in front of them? And it might be, you know, a traditional computer screen. It might be a phone, a tablet, and wearables, I think, are a big piece right now, right? Like, how do I get that information directly in front of my teams as they need it, right? So I'm working on a piece of equipment.
[08:15] I need to maintain it. I need to do cleaning, changeovers, that type of thing. I need that information and the right information right in front of them as they're doing the work. So I think that's a huge thing going forward is thinking about that information intake going forward.
Mikkel Svold
[08:30] And I wonder what groups of employees are affected the most? Are we talking sanitation or product line people? Right, all those people doing the front line work, right?
Carl Thorson
[08:48] And then their direct leadership, right? And a lot of people nowadays are crossing multiple lines, right? They're operating, they're doing sanitation, they're maybe even doing some maintenance tasks.
[09:00] But all of those different groups, I think it's critical that we, again, think about how we're going to get them that information as they are novices and new to these positions and a lot of time with this amount of turnover.
Mikkel Svold
[09:14] One thing I think is teaching people how to perform a job. But what about if there are no people to teach? What's happening then, Jennifer? Maybe you have insights from across.
Jennifer Crandall
[09:31] I mean, that's what I see in the professional space, especially, so I don't see it as much at the labor shortage that Carl's mentioning, where it's at the online employees and the leaders that are there.
[09:43] But I definitely see it with my client base. So my client base is small and mid-sized companies who are trying to scale and grow. So they're looking for people. They do have
[09:54] that labor shortage, but they also have labor shortage in their professional level positions as well. So some of their upper management and senior level people. And so the way that a lot
[10:05] of them bridge that gap is through companies like us, where we can consult and help them to that. But it's interesting because right now our company has seen a shift in people are not
[10:18] utilizing us as much as they used to, and they're coming in more internal and trying to hire. So I think right now it's just like everybody's so uncertain with what the current economic
[10:30] environment is that they're making those decisions to keep everything internal, they're going to run into the same things that Carl just mentioned with training and how to, you know, how to maximize it. And then if they're not allowing people in to help influence how
[10:46] they're, you know, doing that training or seeing if it's actually verified or validated in certain ways, the small and midsize companies, they don't know what they don't know. I've said that for my entire career,
[11:02] that they just really don't understand what they're missing without having that third party come in and give them advice unless they have experience from a large company. So that's something that we focus on. I don't think that's necessarily a trend except for they are pulling
[11:15] inward and stay hiring internal and staying internal instead of hiring third party to help with it. So that might be the trend that I'm seeing the most.
Mikkel Svold
[11:24] And you anticipate this trend to carry on throughout 2026 and maybe even onwards?
Jennifer Crandall
[11:31] It could. It just depends. I mean, we're especially in the United States with, you know, politics aside, just the current status that we have, the current state that we have with economics and some of the tariffs
[11:46] and the international relations, I see that happening a lot in the domestic space in the US. So I do think it'll probably stick around. My hope as a business owner and as a consultancy owner is that it won't be a trend.
[11:59] Like somebody, if you need help, please let us know. But that's exactly what we're seeing on our side.
Mikkel Svold
[12:06] Yeah. And Richard, I want to turn to you now because, well the it's in the name of your company. So you do automation, you do quite a lot of it. So I see this trend towards also automating maybe even with AI,
[12:22] automating some of the processes that will of course, help mitigate or alleviate some of the some of the issues with attracting people because you will then not need as many people maybe. But how are you considering how you're taking
[12:37] this into account when you will design your machines and and yeah and talk to clients yeah
Richard Smith
[12:45] so i think to echo the what the point the other guys have made what we see in our customers is is they don't have the right number of people for a lot of these actual doing jobs in the factories
[12:58] and that's where some of these automation opportunities come in to help with that so we we've sort of reached a point where in the fresh part of the food industry where we operate, the technology has now come to a point where it opens up more of these things that you couldn't necessarily do.
[13:21] And what I mean by that is if you look at some of the, there's some parts of the food manufacturing industry that have been very heavily automated for years, high volume production lines doing a thing.
[13:38] But when you get to the fresher side of the industry, you generally are dealing directly with natural products. So there's a lot more variation in it. You've got more of a variation of product packs and SKUs
[13:53] and different types. And all these things add a complexity in what you could or couldn't automate and what was cost effective to automate. But I think we've reached a point now where both the availability of people and these
[14:09] rising costs and coupled with the increasing technology has opened up a lot more of those types of applications. So what we find ourselves looking at with customers is trying to identify what those applications are so between the technical
[14:29] complexity of being able to actually do something versus what return they're going to get from it what are those bits to try and identify and and part of that as you touched on is uh things like
[14:42] the ai technology now starting to come into some of the machine learning applications um some of the advancements with the robotics that are more dexterous and are able to
[14:55] do more things opens up a lot of these opportunities. Jennifer, you want to chip in?
Jennifer Crandall
[15:01] Absolutely. Yeah, I just wanted to add to it that in the state of Indiana, we are, these are some of the trends that I'm definitely seeing to echo what you're saying, Richard. They, especially on the fresh side, on the agricultural side, there's a lot of
[15:17] money going from investors towards trying to improve different things at the field, at the farm level, where it's isolating and saying, okay, there's something going on with
[15:30] this plant using drone technology and AI to evaluate the plant and say, this plant needs these types of nutrients to be able to help it in order, so we're going to fertilize it this
[15:42] way, or it needs this type of individualized pest control management, which is something that it's fascinating to watch it unfold. There's a lot of seed companies and a lot of different
[15:54] companies that are applying that here in Indiana because we're heavy on like corn and soybeans. And so that I've been seeing that trend come in big time with AI and how to utilize it to automate the processes and eliminate that second decision,
[16:11] the decision at the farmer level where you might have immigrant workers that are coming in or migrant workers that are coming in and they're having to make those decisions and they don't have the training and maybe some of that language barrier.
[16:26] So it's that I've been seeing for a couple of years, a big time shift. And I know our state, and I believe Illinois, and I'm not certain, but I think Ohio is as well, are heavily investing in it.
[16:39] So they're inviting companies to come in and be headquartered here. So that trend, I think, is going to be sticking around for a while.
Mikkel Svold
[16:47] And Kyle, you were nodding your head when Richard mentioned the fresh part of the industry.
Carl Thorson
[16:53] Right, right. the fresh part of the industry. Right, right. I just think about more broadly manual activities, right? And the fact that it seems like the trend is more towards, at least this initial stages is automation and packaging,
[17:05] right? Which leaves us with less people on the line, less people available for changeovers, right? And that's a huge opportunity that we see is that planned losses, right?
[17:17] That planned and scheduled downtime of our systems to change over between products and and how do we quickly get in and out of those those cycles with less people and the challenge again where I think AI can fit
[17:31] into this is we run into this black box of equipment downtime right when I shut off my machine I don't have that information coming at me anymore I've got people doing activities but that's not data and analytics that I can look at right now. So how am
[17:45] I going to use AI to, like Jennifer talked about, looking at the fields? How do I look at my processes so I can model and improve those processes during that downtime? Whether it's,
[17:56] you know, shutting down, actually cleaning, inspecting, setting up center lining, doing maintenance activities. Like I always tell people, I'm like, I'm not trying to make you work faster or harder i want to eliminate tasks and
[18:09] simplify tasks right i want you back up and running product but i've got to have more information and identify things and it's hard to do time studies with these complex manual activities right with
[18:20] lots of people lots activities so utilizing you know overhead cameras and and visuals and and even electronic records where i have now time information that says, hey, I stopped this
[18:33] activity, I started this activity, I can gather that information and look at where my biggest
Mikkel Svold
[18:38] opportunities for improvement and efficiencies. How far along that journey are you at General
Carl Thorson
[18:44] Mills already? Just at the very beginning, right? I mean, this is a very new concept, but I think there's great tools out there. And we've got to think about how we can you know work with you know connected workers and
[18:57] getting them like I said the training they needed but also improving the efficiencies of their tasks and and and the tools that we give them during these
Mikkel Svold
[19:06] especially to plan downtime yeah Richard you have a short comment yeah just just
Richard Smith
[19:12] on the back of that I is it is something that we are seeing more and more from our customers of how do I get more data from the line? How do I get information out of there?
[19:23] So that's something that we're starting to see more and more. And I think that's, it ties in, I think Carl explained it really well there, as you automate more and take out the people, then you've got to be able to compensate for that,
[19:36] to be able to make these decisions.
Mikkel Svold
[19:39] I wanna use this actually to segue right into the next big trend that we've identified beforehand. And you've already started digging deep into this. And of course we're talking AI, we're talking automation, smart automation,
[19:52] data flows, real time data in action, all those kinds of things. So Kyle, I wanna turn to you again. If you imagine a food plant, the year is 2030,
[20:06] what does it look like?
Carl Thorson
[20:08] Right, I think that you're gonna see a lot more technology in what was traditionally not a high technology space, right? You're going to have a lot of data coming into you for these manual tasks, right?
[20:19] We're going to see, you know, I think wearables, right? Like there's got to be that information right there in front of you. And maybe even a trend to more, less, you know, some of these tasks that are difficult to train and keep up with education, how do I
[20:36] give somebody a checklist of tasks? And they just have to follow step by step on some of these more manual tasks to just walk them through. And how do I use augmented reality or different things to
[20:51] help them walk through those tasks on a defined standard of work and standard operating procedure and things like that. So I think that that's going to be, and there's going to be more robotics and things as well,
[21:07] but definitely getting them engaged with these tools in AI, AR, virtual reality for training, all of those types of things are going to be more standard.
Mikkel Svold
[21:19] Now, I don't hear you say it, but I want to ask it anyway. Are the lights on in the factory or is it off i think
Carl Thorson
[21:27] that yeah definitely they're on right like with richard's you know with the manual tasks and things that we're having to deal with a lot of the cut you know the new products the customization the challenges of dealing with fresh foods or highly manual or there's a lot of interaction
[21:43] that's going to be it's going to be quite a ways out there before we can automate a lot of these and maybe never right with these things that are
Richard Smith
[21:50] lower volumes and very customized do you agree richard yeah 100 i think the i think what we'll see is we will start to see more and more automation coming in but this i think we're a
[22:08] long way away from fully automated i mean we all see on our uh in the media, humanoid robots and all that type of thing. But I think from having those
[22:19] been able to practically operate in these food factory environments is quite a long way down
Mikkel Svold
[22:26] the line. Of course, it also requires quite a few investments. The cost of labor is also high, but the investments in robotics will of course be. I'm wondering what specific sectors or what specific types of food do you expect to be mostly automated?
[22:49] Let's just say next year, if we follow up in a year from now. Jennifer, you're smiling.
Jennifer Crandall
[22:55] I think that's going to be a very difficult question to answer. I mean, it really depends because just the reality. So like kind of circling back real quick, the reality is a lot of companies are still on paper.
[23:10] So even the idea of going from paper to AI usage is insane for me, for a lot of my clients would not ever, they would not be anywhere near it.
[23:23] And then the challenges of a company like the General Mills, that size, Carl, and I can, I worked in Kroger, I've worked at Safeway. So I have that background of like, it's really challenging to execute a
[23:37] large project for a lot of people to collaborate together. So by next year, I don't see a lot of shift. I don't think a lot of things will change for those types of companies because it's just
[23:50] so challenging to execute a project of that kind of enormity. So I would think, yeah, the five years probably you'll see a lot of shift and it would be in more of the products that have like, I think the more, the simple, the formula that
[24:07] has less variation in it is going to be the easier ones to do that whenever you're talking about on the process side of it. Because when you start adding any variables to it, then you have to build all of that
[24:18] programming into the AI and it has to be able to learn and do and choose the right things where, I mean, organizations like, or, you know, universities, Purdue, I know just partnered with, I think with Google
[24:33] to be able to start building in AI into their research and that sort of thing. So like a lot of the education company, education organizations, they're still trying to figure out how to do it from a research perspective of like, how do we know it's giving us accurate
[24:49] information? And is it pulling from appropriate sources? So when I think of a kill step or a sanitation validation or something to that effect, just kind of dummy in it down, I worry that it's
[25:01] not going to make the right decisions because it's not pulling from the appropriate information. And it's very limited scope whenever you have, you know, like a company building it from their legacy systems and their
[25:15] internal management systems, it, I think it's going to be very hard. So it's going to be like a large company starting to kind of branch out and do some of these activities. And it'll be, like I said, it probably the less variables in the formulation as possible, or they might focus,
[25:32] and Richard, you might have more insight on this, I'm sure you do. But it might focus on after packaging or after processing so that it's more automated on the logistics side. But I've seen that from like warehousing and logistics.
[25:46] I've seen that for 25 years in the industry. It's just not been AI. It's been, you know, like through logic. So robot, I witnessed robots being put into my distribution areas in plants way back in 2000. So like, I don't know
[26:06] where that edge is. So I might not be adding value to that conversation as much. But I'm very curious to hear the other two.
Mikkel Svold
[26:14] Kyle, do you see the same tendency to overestimate the change short term and maybe underestimate it in five years, 10 years time?
Carl Thorson
[26:24] Right. No, I completely agree because we got to have a very clear problem statement because it can be very quickly overwhelming. Like I said, even with a simple changeover, there's so many activities going on. If I'm looking at that
[26:36] activity, like I got to be very focused on what am I looking at? I mean, there's huge opportunities, not only for efficiencies, but human safety, right? Can I look and make sure somebody applied a lockout tag out, right? That's a very specific problem statement and task for the AI, for the camera to look at.
[26:51] Okay, but then I've got to have the administrative support to enter that into the system and build a program around that. There's thousands and thousands of tasks that are going on in any given what seems like a simple changeover.
[27:03] So it becomes very quickly overwhelming to initially set it up and then maintain that over time. And so that's what I think is going to be the challenge.
Mikkel Svold
[27:12] You've mentioned the changeovers a couple of times. Is that where the big problem is? Is that in the changeover from one product to another? Or is it also just within every single product going through the production?
Carl Thorson
[27:29] Yeah, so my area of focus has been the changeovers, right? And the scheduled downtime, the planned downtime, because that is such a waste. I think a lot of people have seen that,
[27:40] right? Where we have, in some instances, days of downtime between what are more and more complex products, right? Like my job is to make sure first I'm making a safe product, but I do it efficiently and effectively at a cost competitive way. And R&D is coming to me and marketing with
[27:58] more and more complex things, right? I need to make sure that I'm gluten free and i meet all of the dietary requirements and allergens and and all of these things so i got to make sure i can clean and maintain a system to
[28:10] to to not be a hindrance to their new uh new ideas and and new products um so that that becomes very
Mikkel Svold
[28:18] complicated i think actually uh richard i want to ask you just real short what what kinds of technologies are we currently seeing and and do you expect being more implemented coming forward in
[28:30] 26? Let's just focus on the next year. So are there any current technologies that are already working that you expect these will be basically across the market when we sit here for a year
Richard Smith
[28:44] from now? I think my thoughts are that things were going to become gradually more widespread. Soum to touch on a bit with where i see ai around some of these technologies is if you talk about what jennifer mentioned there earlier as you've got a robot system and you've
[29:05] got a vision camera and it's doing a packaged product at the end of a line so traditionally you'll have you'll have written a program that the camera looks at the product and tells a robot what to do and because that product's consistent that program doesn't necessarily need to change.
[29:22] Where the AI vision side of things comes in is it probably opens up some individual things with more difficult products, which are changing each time, or you've got a bigger variety.
[29:35] So it's a natural product, it's a cheese topping, it's whatever might be. And that's where the value of this AI vision technology will come in, because rather than that one set of program, you're constantly capturing the images and it will open up individual applications.
[29:55] So I guess what I see is not necessarily something becoming widespread across everywhere, but it's almost application by application becoming gradually easier and more possible with these new technologies.
Other speaker
[30:09] Carlos, are you raising your hand there? Yes. Yeah. easier and more possible with these new technologies.
Mikkel Svold
[30:10] Carlos, you're raising your hand there.
Carl Thorson
[30:12] Yes. I think the biggest ones are where we're more prone to human error. You think about assembly or any of the interaction where you're like,
[30:25] oh wow, people don't intend to make the mistakes, but if I can use a visual assessment and these AI tools can see things, did I reassemble the equipment appropriately is the
[30:36] product in the correct orientation and can I react more quickly you know you can always have eyes on things with these cameras and that's always going to make the right decision whereas humans are prone to error right so I think
[30:50] those are the biggest opportunity is to help people avoid those mistakes and
Mikkel Svold
[30:55] errors I would say all the way down to does the barcode read, right? Exactly. Is it readable? Because I talked to someone in the industry earlier and they said that if a single barcode on a palette of products, if a single barcode on one product, it may be like hundreds of products.
[31:16] If one product doesn't read, they can actually, at least in Denmark, they can return the entire palette of products, which is to me kind of insane, but that just, it comes down to that, just does this barcode actually sit where it should sit and is it folded or is it sticking on
[31:33] right? Before we move on to the next one, I want to just quickly touch on this. When we're talking AI, when we're talking also automation, but mainly AI, we're also talking data collection. And Kyle,
[31:47] Carl, you mentioned wearables and tracking of people movement inside a factory. We're coming closer to something where data privacy and cybersecurity suddenly means a lot.
[32:03] Jennifer, are people out there ready for collecting this kind of data? You said earlier that some people still work on paper, so I guess the answer is no. They do.
Jennifer Crandall
[32:15] So I think that from a manufacturing perspective, no, they're not ready. And then you have, you know, a lot of people just, you know, I think you'll see a lot of resistance in the social behaviors of people as well.
[32:30] So not just the manufacturing level, but your labor being resistant to the idea of you're recording me. Why are you recording me? What information are you gathering? What are you doing with this?
[32:42] So there'll be a lot of resistance from that perspective as well. I do want to kind of circle back to what Carl was saying too, because I think it's also tied into where are mistakes being made and where's human error coming in.
[32:59] So that technology sounds fantastic to have, to be able to limit and minimize those places that, I mean, we still have recalls that are happening on a regular basis in the food industry around allergens.
[33:14] And so like that sanitation management, and many times it's not that, it's the change over and it's, we put the wrong package or the wrong thing. So going back to your barcode technology conversation
[33:25] as well, like an incorrect packaging gets put on the line. I mean, I see those recalls come across my desk at least twice a week. And when you start looking through what happened, it's usually a changeover mistake. So
[33:41] I don't think manufacturing is quite ready for all of that activity. I'd love to see what General Mills is doing with the idea of doing video and recording. It's very, like I kind of, I put it in the chat, like it's a very exciting time
[33:57] to be in the industry, to see some of these evolution of technology come in to be able to do that. But I do believe you'll see a very large, broad range of companies that are able to
[34:11] implement technology like that, where there's going to be, you know, the guys that are currently creating new things in their kitchen that they want to bring into, you know, the manufacturing space and start
[34:23] selling it on the retail level or at food service level, they're not going to be anywhere near that. And I know we mentioned investment, the investment dollars aren't there unless it's really exciting technology. So, you know, like I've witnessed it personally in food safety. It's not exciting to,
[34:41] I almost say it's not sexy for an investor to invest in something that gives us rapid detection. I watched a company fold for that. So they couldn't get investment money and they had a
[34:53] less than 30 minute detection on pathogen. And layering those kind of things into investment strategies would be very helpful. And the government, if we could get the governments
[35:07] on board with investing in this and making it less difficult to get grant money, to get money to help invest into our facilities. I mean, not that I'm trying to pitch it, but I think it would be a really good idea if we start pushing investors to think
[35:20] in that mindset, as well as the manufacturing companies that are currently building or trying
Mikkel Svold
[35:27] to scale up. Jennifer, are you sitting with my question script in front of you? Because you just made the perfect segue for me. So you're very welcome.
Other speaker
[35:35] Here you go.
Mikkel Svold
[35:38] I think that let's, let's try and move on to, to the next trend I want to dig into. And, and that we talked about, so we're talking regulation and we are talking, uh, food safety and changes and what drives changes.
[35:52] So what we see is there are basically two things that drive that drive changes in a production. So one could be regulation, three things including customer behavior, but let's just say regulation on one side,
[36:07] and then you have the internal regulation or what you would call governance driving as well. What new regulatory movements are we to expect?
[36:21] Is anything happening? Who wanna chip in? It's a hard question.
Jennifer Crandall
[36:26] I know I've provided some of that feedback. So like in, you know, the dietary guidelines shifted. So there could be some label regulations down the road that ripple from that. I don't know if that would happen necessarily.
[36:39] You know, the government doesn't move quickly. So that external factor might not impact us for a few years. But I think it could. The food is medicine trend. That's not regulatory, but the regulatory has to catch up with it. So there's a lot of activity with innovative products that are
[36:57] trying to be designed and developed in the mindset of like food is health. So yeah, we have this whole fresh sector that is being pushed, which is great. It should be, but there's also a lot
[37:09] of trends around, you know, the, the gluten-free, the dietary restrictions, you know, GLP-1, the medicine that everybody's using for weight loss, there's a lot of research and
[37:21] development going on around that space. And I think that the governments will have to come in and define if they're okay with these claims being made. So that, I don't know if that's necessarily impacting, you know, some of the technology piece of it, but it will definitely
[37:37] be impacting the decisions of what types of products are we producing and creating in that product development space and regulatory needs to catch up. As far as internal governance,
[37:49] that's a whole nother mindset. So that's another issue, but yeah, go ahead.
Mikkel Svold
[37:53] And Richard, I wonder from the UK and dare I say EU side of things as well, are you expecting something happening
Richard Smith
[38:06] coming externally from from governments i think in terms of regulations for the food producers the uh the uk market is pretty heavily regulated at the moment so they did there's a really high
[38:24] culture of food safety and standards agencies that audit factories and all that side of things and one thing which ties back to your previous point that I do know is on the way for the machinery manufacturer side is there are some new EU directives on the way around cyber security.
[38:44] So as a manufacturer, we will need to do as well as doing a health and safety risk assessment as part of the machinery.
[39:01] also have to do risk assessments around the security and the cyber security of the equipment before it goes into factories so i know there is some stuff coming along uh along those lines and that ties into some of the new uh there's some new standards coming out around robotics and and all of those things so it is it is a constantly evolving piece which i think is
[39:19] necessarily as the technologies and some of the things that we've talked about earlier evolves.
Mikkel Svold
[39:26] I was so fortunate.
Jennifer Crandall
[39:27] Do you mind if I interject? Because I just want to add to that, Richard. Anything the EU and UK are doing tend to be like the US will follow it eventually. It might go state by state for a bit.
[39:41] So it's very interesting to hear about the cybersecurity requirements and that's coming down the pipeline for machinery, because that will be something that I would guess in the next couple of years, the US will pay attention to it and also follow that trend. So it'll at least happen in states
[39:58] like California and New York, they usually trend faster than others, but it'll eventually
Mikkel Svold
[40:04] come in here too. So I just wanted to add that. Carl, would you guys be ready for that as well?
Carl Thorson
[40:11] Cybersecurity regulations? Yeah, it's definitely a discussion. But yeah, interesting to hear those trends agree that they we definitely follow, right.
Mikkel Svold
[40:21] I was so fortunate to interview Bill Mahler, who is a food attorney, in actually in the last in the last episode of this podcast. And he mentioned the fact that whenever a food
[40:33] contamination case comes along, what food producers they will sometimes try is to kind of maybe not push the responsibility away from themselves, but but more so try
[40:45] to also kind of split the responsibility a little bit with some of the machine producers or the machine builders who built the machine that caused the issue. Of course, it's a hard sell when you go all the way to to to the lawmakers. But But
[41:03] then again, if you are a fairly small machine builder producing or creating machines for a large food producer that kind of dynamic could happen do you guys see any of that happening yet maybe
Richard Smith
[41:20] richard do you know anything about that i i think yeah i think as a machine builder um certainly from my side of what i've been involved in it always has been like that so it's been on the quite often um so certain larger food companies
[41:38] would have a set of standards or something that you would have to apply to but even all our machines um the sort of requirements of the machinery directive and various standards and
[41:50] all that sort of thing as all all sits with us to comply with that um and also things like materials that come into contact with food need to be certified and all that.
[42:03] We've always fed that to our customers because they need that as part of their audits, whoever they are. So for me, that's always been the way that you have a responsibility as a machinery manufacturer to design the machine right to the various standards.but then there's a dual responsibility also on the food manufacturers buying that to validate that that is right coming into their factory um yeah so yeah
Jennifer Crandall
[42:37] jenny for a short yeah just just to add i mean when you're from the manufacturing perspective a lot of times there's a lot of contracts in place already with these companies to take that kind of indemnification
[42:53] or accountability and share it across the board. You don't sue each other, but at the same time, every recall that you see that happens impacts every single company that's involved in the
[43:08] production of that product. So whether it be a raw material supplier or a vendor or a packaging encouraging or the machinery company there's a lot of conversations that are happening behind the scenes and it's not always at the litigation level it's sometimes you know it might be but
[43:24] sometimes it might be taken to civil court if it's not something we're very litigation heavy in the united states and i know a lot of people are aware of that but i i think that you we've seen that for a long time it's not just that's not a trend but that I mean it's just the way we operate in general. I want to just come
Mikkel Svold
[43:42] back to now we've talked about the external regulation and the external factors that can push the change or drive the food safety innovation out there but what do we have of internal factors and are any factors stronger now than they used to be and what do you see
Carl Thorson
[44:03] coming forward Carl? Yeah no I think we're constantly reviewing our internal policies. Like I said, we're trying to make sure that we're compliant, but we're also giving flexibility to our organization to be creative and develop new products and
[44:19] make sure that we're as innovative as possible. So, yeah, we're constantly reviewing those policies.
Mikkel Svold
[44:29] Perfect. I think let's close this trend down for the moment and then come back to Jennifer, you already mentioned it, the shift in consumer trends or in consumer focus, I would say.
[44:43] So what I experienced from a Danish point of view, and of course, highly influenced by what we see from well, across the Atlantic, but also the rest of Europe, this focus on
[44:55] nutrition values, this focus on life extending medicine or not medicine, foods. I mean, you know, the nutrition pyramid, the food pyramids may be being changed up a little bit with
[45:10] different kinds of foods coming into the market. And we see a lot less meat, a lot more vegetables, at least in the people following the trends. What trends are you seeing, Jennifer, when we talk about this food as a medicine or food
Jennifer Crandall
[45:31] as a means to a healthier life? Yeah. Well, I'm seeing a lot of investment money and competitions that are focused on it. Like I'm currently being a judge on a panel that's produced students
[45:42] creating plant-based appetizers that are meat analog. So they're coming up with scratch. So there's a push for less meat. And that's kind of,
[45:54] I see that as kind of a dual trend of medicine, like food is medicine, food is health, also sustainability. So there's like that environmental impact. And a lot of the research that I've done
[46:08] and the people that I interact with, that's been a focus for, it seems like that's going to be the trending focus for a while is like, not just how is this good for me and don't make false claims about it being good for me. Like,
[46:22] I legitimately want it to be good for me, but also the consumer trend of like, well, also, how is it helping the environment? Is it sustaining us a little bit better? Is it impacting not just global, but, you know, like long-term health. So like sustainability in itself, that is shifting in like in ways that
[46:43] I've never seen. I mean, sustainability always meant for a long time, probably 20 years, it meant environmental impact, but now it's more multifaceted foods that focus on, you know,
[46:56] causes, holistic value. How is it impacting, you know, well-balanced meal, gut health. There's just so many other factors that are starting to play in that space.
Mikkel Svold
[47:07] And Kyle, how are you catching this trend?
Carl Thorson
[47:11] Right. I think it's impacting, you know, in a specific one, obviously we talk about the weight loss, right? And focus on weight loss drugs and things is the need and the desire for more protein, right? So how do we fit more protein into our portfolio products is a challenge.
Jennifer Crandall
[47:31] Protein as well, like with the new dietary guidelines, protein got increased on the amount, but there's some feedback that's been I've seen in some of the articles that I've been reading that the medical society is
[47:46] not super excited about increased protein because they're not being specific about what type of protein to add. So they don't you know, from a sustainability side, the more cattle that we produce, the more beef that we produce, there is, you know, a potential impact of gases and that sort of thing.
[48:02] So going into plant-based alternatives, that's where the trends are pushing. But the food guide pyramid shift doesn't really state that. But, you know, that's where an opportunity is for a lot of companies to build those plant-based proteins into their products. And I think,
[48:20] you know, Carl, you probably agree with this. Like I've seen those trends probably at least 15 years of like increased protein in our foods and in our innovation. So it's not a new thing, but it's just
[48:35] incorporating in some of these other high protein alternatives. And there's so many new raw materials that we're all looking at and testing to see how we can how the functionality of them work in products that normally wouldn't have them so soybeans were always used in the
[48:52] background now we're looking at all types of lentils that we never like chickpeas are getting used a lot more and there's just there's a lot of trend there there's a lot of opportunity there
Mikkel Svold
[49:03] and carl i want to turn to you again and quite specifically what does this mean to the products that you push out? Are you seeing a shift in the kinds of products that you are producing more of?
[49:15] Or is it also maybe just a question of changing up the label a little bit? Not to make it sound like health or greenwashing, but if you already have a food that actually ticks all the new quote-unquote boxes, maybe it's just a label problem.
Carl Thorson
[49:33] Or where are you guys at? I mean, it's absolutely a label problem or where where you guys are absolutely multi-faceted right like there's the the labeling and and how do you market this um how do we uh formulate for that and in products um and utilize you know like jennifer said there's new ingredients and things and then
[49:48] the impact to our systems right like sometimes these new ingredients have impacts there you know if you put more protein on what was traditionally a carbohydrate system it's tougher to clean, proteins are more difficult to remove,
[50:00] impacts changeovers, runnability, equipment reliability. There's a lot of impacts when we make major swings in the ingredients and the formulas of these products. So there's a lot of
[50:13] unintended or maybe unexpected impacts for the businesses.
Mikkel Svold
[50:19] And Richard, I want to give you a chance to chip in here because how do you then solve that
Richard Smith
[50:27] yeah i think it's uh it's all part of um that complexity of and that balance between which is always that case for balance between um how you can automate things but at the same time you've
[50:44] got to design it so that you can clean it you can swap it change it down etc etc which is i think it's uh for me that's not a new thing all that's changing is the things that are changing you've always got to be able to deal with that balance between the
[51:00] automation and that actual usability in a real food factory setting and do you guys see a push
Mikkel Svold
[51:09] towards uh hygienic by design when we're talking machine design or or we still is it still okay that you have a machine that's not, I'm going to call it hygienic by design. I don't know if you, maybe you can explain what I mean also for myself.
Richard Smith
[51:28] I think for me and certainly for us in the sectors we operate in, it's always been the case. But what I guess what we're starting to see now is people are coming, the end customer is coming a lot more
[51:47] conscious of that. So when we're looking at how we design a system so that there's no trap points, there's minimal flat surfaces, there's hygienic spaces, bearings, all of that type of thing.
[52:06] I think where that awareness is becoming a lot more widespread in the industry of that's the sort of standard that things need to be. And not necessarily, I think it's possibly always been there in some of the areas that we categorize as high risk and high care production areas.
[52:26] But I think that's now almost becoming the sort of standard that people want in their factories, wherever it is.
Mikkel Svold
[52:34] Kyle?
Carl Thorson
[52:35] Right. trees, wherever it is. Right. And I think another important piece of this is not only is it hygienic in design, but that also means that I can efficiently change over, right? Like, how do I follow quick changeover principles, right? So yes, it's made out of hygienic materials. The
[52:50] materials of construction are great, but how do I assemble those so I can quickly get in and be able to see and touch those components to be able to interact with them, whether it's sanitation activities, maintenance activities, centerlining, whatever those activities might be.
[53:05] But I've got to think about efficiencies to go with that as well and get in and out of those activities as quickly as possible.
Mikkel Svold
[53:12] I think it's really interesting that you mentioned the efficiency bit, Carl, and you mentioned it throughout the interview, actually. So this hyper-focus on not having production stops or making them as short as possible.
[53:31] What direct initiatives have you been taking at General Mills to shorten the stops?
Carl Thorson
[53:40] Right, exactly. So the philosophy I have is cleaning by exception, right? Which seems counterintuitive. But when we demand that we justify the cleaning, people have a better understanding and we have a better program to go with it.
[53:55] So every time I work on an optimization program, my food safety and quality improves because I've standardized that. So really focusing on, hey, why are we cleaning, right? Is there a food safety quality issue? Is there a human safety, equipment reliability issue?
[54:09] And I could go on forever on our water control programs, right? and trying to minimize the impact of water and the pathogen risk with that. But this war on water and, you know, having controls in place similar to glass
[54:24] and brittle plastic, how do we control water, eliminate it, you know, minimize it for cleaning, spot cleaning, only cleaning what we need to, only cleaning where we need to with minimal water, minimal invasive cleaning methods, and really focus on, you know, the efficiencies.
[54:41] And then that also drives labor improvements and food safety as well.
Mikkel Svold
[54:47] I think that really it's interesting because it echoes. I think it was Deborah Smith, who is a microbiologist we had on the show earlier. And she talks about biofilms. And the fact, you know, exactly if you can design so you don't have to basically so you don't have to clean but it's more if something
[55:06] happens but it to i think to laymen standing outside of the food production industry this
Carl Thorson
[55:13] sounds very counterintuitive um right it is hard to understand right but but defining what clean means clean can means very different things if i walk into a flour mill it's going to be there's
[55:24] going to be flour right and it's going to look dusty and and and dirty but it's safe, it's clean, we don't want to introduce water, we don't want to do invasive cleaning methods. Whereas I walk into a dairy or a meat plant, right, it's going to look very different. Both of them can be very safe,
[55:40] right, it's just the understanding of water, water activity, and controlling the environment for water is critically important for a lot of reasons. Environmental sustainability, human safety, equipment reliability, all of these reasons, everybody can get around the importance
[55:56] of controlling water in our environments and in our products.
Mikkel Svold
[56:00] And I think one of the beautiful things about exactly this optimization, the water optimization, the water usage optimization is that it goes hand in hand with financial benefit.
[56:14] And that I think is key. That's my personal opinion, that is key to pushing a change that will last also if, you know, if the wind blows the opposite direction at some point, right?
Carl Thorson
[56:27] Right. Whereas we've made dramatic changes from what used to be full flood cleaning, right? Huge amounts of water, chemistry, risk to our employees, to dry cleaning in some cases, right? And puts our people, our equipment, our products at much less risk.
[56:44] And then with huge cost savings, right? Significant reductions in changeover times and gives us capacity and uptime that is very beneficial to the business.
Mikkel Svold
[56:58] I think this opens so many questions, one of them being to you, Richard, of course. What has this kind of shift, what has that meant to machine builders? You know, it must be another way of designing your machines.
Richard Smith
[57:14] Yeah, it is very much part of that design process. And it makes it a, yeah, I guess it adds a degree of complexity because you're thinking about, yes, how it's constructed,
[57:27] but you're also thinking, right, how can we remove that belt quickly and change over times and all that side of things how do we um keep the so we build in some things with some clean in place tools that we can do uh little small bits of
[57:44] cleaning throughout the process which stops a build-up and reduces the need for a large clean at the end so it's all those factors um water uses comes into it even down to as much as making sure that the air that you're
[58:00] using on the system is clean air because it's in the food contact vicinity and what you have to build in to be able to do that so there's a whole load of levels to how that hygienic machine machine design needs to be done yeah our
Mikkel Svold
[58:16] time is is flying by and and I think we should we have to stop pretty soon but I have one last question that I want to ask all of you and i think um carl you're going to be the first one up to to get in the fire pit if you were to name one disruptor
[58:33] or one differentiator you're watching in 2026 what will that be right so for me again it's it's ai and
Carl Thorson
[58:41] how do we utilize um these tools to to get data to help us improve these spaces there's so many opportunities with especially cameras right and seeing i know there's the the um the challenge of people um involved with that and you've got to work through that
[58:57] and make sure that people there's the culture that goes with that understanding that we're trying to use it for good right and we're not trying to be the watching you and trying to make you work harder faster but we're trying to eliminate and simplify tasks for you so um utilizing
[59:10] not just for for people but for you know, for tasks, for looking at products. I think that those cameras, to be able to see what's going on on a regular basis and give us the data and make recommendations, I think is huge.
Mikkel Svold
[59:24] And Jennifer, one disruptor from you.
Jennifer Crandall
[59:27] Yeah, I mean, AI is hard to ignore right now. So I think even in consulting space and what our clients are utilizing it for, so something as high-tech as what Carl's mentioning.
[59:42] But also just how do you, and you've actually mentioned it earlier too, Carl, was how to overlay it into training. It's a huge opportunity in the industry for us in general.
[59:54] And we need to figure out how to lean into it and maximize it because it's not going away, so we might as well lean into it and start trying to figure out how to use it over various forms.
[1:00:07] Training through, you know, just interaction with our customers, interaction with our labor and our employees. And I love, like, even hearing all the things that, Richard, you're sharing.
[1:00:20] I mean, it's just, it's really exciting to be in the industry and watch AI kind of unfold.
Mikkel Svold
[1:00:26] And that leaves us with you, Richard. Is AI also the disruptor of the year seen from your chair?
Richard Smith
[1:00:34] I think it has to be. I was trying to think of something else to be different there,
Jennifer Crandall
[1:00:38] but I can't argue really with Jennifer or Carl.
Richard Smith
[1:00:42] I think that is, yeah, I think it is definitely the thing that is going to, if we can get it right in the right areas, it's definitely the thing that can transform the way we do things the most, I believe.
Mikkel Svold
[1:00:58] Yeah. So for the listeners out there, I'm sure you are very surprised to hear that AI is going to be one of the key focal points for 2026. That's what we could do for you. No, but definitely, of course, it will be.
[1:01:28] One thing I think personally that's interesting is to see which type of company are going to adapt and incorporate AI the better and the faster. Are we talking the large companies, general mill size, really large food producers? Because you may have the programmers sitting there, you have the IT department that can drive some of this.
[1:01:40] Or are we going to see it's going to be small individual food producers and also machine builders for that sake, that because they have the agility to kind of, you know, just shift over and say, hey, we could do this with AI, let's just do it.
[1:01:56] And then tomorrow they're on that path. So I think that's going to be very exciting to see. Carl Thorson, Jennifer Crandall and Richard Smith, thank you so much, all of you for joining this talk. It was super, super interesting.
[1:02:10] And yeah, thank you for joining.
Richard Smith
[1:02:13] Thank you very much.
Jennifer Crandall
[1:02:13] Thank you for having us.
Mikkel Svold
[1:02:15] And then just to the listener out there, I hope you got something out of this episode. I surely thought it was very, very informative and very interesting. So I feel kind of ready to leap into 2026 after this talk,
[1:02:27] and I hope you do the same. If you do have any questions or points that you want to ask or ask any of the participants at this board, do reach out to us at podcast at [ngi-global.com](http://ngi-global.com/).
[1:02:42] And that was podcast at [ngi-global.com](http://ngi-global.com/). And that email will go straight to the production team here. And we'll see if we can kind of sort out, find an answer for you. And if not, we can definitely have a good talk.
[1:02:56] So yeah, do reach out to us. And all I have left to say now is just thank you so much for listening.
Other speaker
[1:03:01] Thank you.
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